| [qadianism] Re: The Finality of Prophethood - Concensus of Scholars|
By Rashid @emirates.net.ae
Mr. Abdul Aziz
You say that:
> Mr. Rashid: I reassert that Mirza Sahib never claimed to be a law bearing
Are you telling me that this quotations which I have quoted here is not from the
book of Mirza Ghulam:
"Besides understand this also that what is the Law (Shariat)? He who
described through his revelation some Amr-o-Nahi (orders and prohibitions)
and made a law for his followers, he becomes Law Bearing Prophet. Thus
according to this definition... my revelation also contains order and
prohibitions. For example this inspiration: 'Qul lil mo'mineen yaghuddoo min
absaare him wa tahfezoo furoojahum zzalika azkaa" This is mentioned in
Braheen Ahmadiyya and it contains order adn prohibition as well and 23 years
have passed on this and similarly until now my revelation contains orders as
well as prohibitions. If you say that Law (shariat) is that law which is new
then this is false." (Roohani Khazain vol.17 p. 435 footnote)
> I know what I and other members of the Jamaat Ahmadiyya believe..
> May be you have learned about Ahmadiyyat> But your objective is different.
> If you are interested in an unbised analysis of what you read you will
> always draw wrong conclusions.
I have given the quotation. Let the readers draw their own conclusion.
> The reason I say so is that
> you have come up with strange definition of 'law bearing prophet'.
Excuse me, it is not me who is defining the law-bearing prophet, it is Mirza Ghulam
who is describing. If I have done a wrong translation, please let the readers know,
otherwise I am sure they are intelligent enough to draw the right conclusions.
> Before I
> go into this aspect I ask you a question: can a non-law bearing prophet from
> inside the ummah of Muhammad (SAS) come? I shall be able to respond to you
> after I see your answer to my question.
Mr Aziz! According to your 'non-law bearing prophet' - Mirza Ghulam - more prophets
will come. Let us for the sake of argument accept that. Now look at the following
quotation of Mirza Ghulam:
"Dead are those who did not accept one Holy Messenger. Blessed is the one who had
recognised me. Amongst ALL THE WAYS of Allah I am the last Way and from all His
Lights, I am the Last Light. Unfortunate is the one leaves me, since without me
there is all darkness." (Kishtee-e-Nooh, Roohani Khazain vol 19 p.61)
Would you kindly tell me that what is the meaning of 'LAST' in this quotation? On
the one hand, he and his khulafa led all qadianis to believe that more prophets will
continue coming and yet above quotation says otherwise. Is it not obvious that Mirza
Ghulam stole the title of Finality from Rasoolullah and applied it on himself and
yet you people continue to believe that more 'ghair-shara'ee prophets will continue
> You say that Jihad is the essence of Islam. There are two types of Jihad:
> One with sword, the other with Quran. Prophet Muhammad (SAS) himself that
> when my Issa will come he will cancel Jihad (yaqta ul Jihad).
I am sorry I do not remember seeing where Holy Prophet has mentioned the words 'MY
ISSA'. Could you please tell me where are you quoting from.
> By cancelling
> he did nt mean that it will be abrogated for ever. Mirza Sahib said that
> Jihad against the British was wrong because they had occpied the whole
> country and were not persecuting Muslims for their religion.
If what you are saying is true then would you tell me why Mirza Ghulam was
distributing his anti-Jehad literature in those areas as well which were not under
> Even being
> christians they permitted Muslims and other to criticize christianity. If
> you doubt my statement that the British were not good enough then please see
> the statement of other ulema living at time :Maulan Zafar Ali Khan, Sir Syed
> Ahmad Khan, even Maulana Maudoodi and Maulana Sana Ullah Amritsari. See how
> they praised the British because the British saved them fron the tyranny of
> Sikh rule in the Punjab and Marhattas in the central provinces. My question
> to you: "Do you have any information additional to information available to
> the above quoted ulema. On what basis do you say that Mirza Sahib was wrong
> and the other ulema were right?"
Did any of these above mentioned people claim that they have been divinely ordained
or that they are prophet or messiah or mahdi? I am sure that the difference is
Please read these quotations carefully again:
> >"From my early age till now when I am 65 years of age, I have been engaged ,
> >with my pen and tongue, in an important task to turn the hearts of Muslims
> >towards the true love & Goodwill & sympathy for the British Government and to
> >obliterate the idea of Jehad from the hearts of stupid (Muslims). "
> >(Kitab-ul-Bariyah, Roohani Khazain vol 13 p.350)
> >" . . . . for the sake of British Government, I have published & distributed
> >50,000 leaflets in this country (India) other Islamic countries(against jehad).
> >. . . the result is that hundreds of thousands of people have given up their
> >filthy ideas about Jihad." (Roohani Khazain vol 15 p.114)
> >"The severity of Jehad i.e. religious wars have been gradually diminished by
> >God. In the time of Hazrat Moses it was so severe that even accepting the faith
> >was not sufficient to save someone from getting killed and even the infants were
> >killed. The in the time of our Prophet SAAW it was forbidden to kill children
> >and old and women....and then IN THE TIME OF PROMISED MESSIAH THE ORDER >OF JEHAD
> HAS BEEN TOTALLY ABROGATED."
> >(Arba'een No. 4 p. 12, footnote. Roohani Khazain vol 17 p. 443 by Mirza Ghulam
> >"FROM TODAY THE HUMAN JEHAD WHICH WAS DONE BY SWORD, HAS BEEN >ABOLISHED BY THE
> ORDER OF GOD. IF NOW ANYONE WHO RAISES A SWORD >ON KAAFIR AND CALLS HIMSELF A
> GHAZI, HE IS DISOBEYING THAT PROPHET >saaw, who had said 1300 years ago that after
> the coming of Promised Messiah all Jehads >with swords will be abolished. Thus
> AFTER MY ARRIVAL THERE IS NO JEHAD WITH >SWORD. We have raised the white flag of
> peace and truce." (Tabligh-e-Risalat vol 9 p. 47. >Collection of Advertisements
> vol 3 p. 295)
> >"O friends! Leave the thoughts of Jehad
> >It is HARAM now to fight and kill for religion
> >Now the Messiah has come who is the leader of Deen
> >All religious wars have now ended
> >Divine light is now descending from heavens
> >It is useless to give the FATWA fro Jehad
> >He, who is engaged in Jehad, is the enemy of God
> >He is the disbeliever of Prophet SAAW who believes in it."
> >(Poetry of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad in Urdu, Collection of advertisements, vol 3 pp.
> >297-298, Roohani Khazain vol. 7 p. 77)
> Let me tell you that it is not Mirza Sahib only in whose time a certain
> portion of practice was temporarily suspended.
Please read the above quotes from the books of Mirza Ghulam. No where it says or
even implied that this is just a temporary suspension. He is quite absolute in his
abrogation of Jehad for ever.
> Please understand the point: Mirza Sahib never said that he is a
> law bearing prophet. No Ahmadi believes otherwise.
Mr Aziz. It is not what Ahmadis believe, it is what Mirza Ghulam has said that is
important. As a follower of Mirza, you have to believe in and bear the
responsibility for whatever he has written or said or advertised, irrespective of
whether you have read it or not. Mirza Ghulam has said it but if you believe
otherwise, then it is your problem. You should ask your khalifa why he has led you
to believe otherwise.
> Wassalaam who follow the
> hadith, quran and sunnah
> >Wassalam on those who follwo the hidayah
[Verily in the Remembrance of Allah do hearts find Peace.(alQuran)]
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