[qadianism] Re: I need answer.
By Farhan Qureshi @yahoo.com
6:25am
Thu
11
Feb

Assalaamu Alaikum,

First of all, let me ask you are you a Qur'an or Hadith interpreter?
If not give me an explanation of scholors, or otherwise. Also tell me
one place in the Qur'an or Hadith where is states that Isa ibn Maryam
(as) is still living in the heavens........ Remember the Quranic
verse: it is only those who understand the Qur'an who ar especially
purified by Him. (Al Qur'an)

Wasslaam,
Farhan



---Suheil Laher < slahe-@alum.mit.edu > wrote:
>
> Farhan Qureshi wrote:
> 
> > Jesus did die, And The Quran and Bible are the evidence to it.
> 
> The Bible is not a source of proof, otherwise, it would also be an
> 'evidence' for the 'trinity', as well as an evidence of various other
> falsehoods.
> 
> >     "Allah reassured Jesus: O Jesus indeed I will cause thee to die,
> > ....." (Al Quran 3:55)
> 
> I already discussed this verse in my previous email, and showed how it is
> far from conclusive in saying that Jesus (peace be upon him) died.  Please
> refer back to that email; if you have lost it I can re-send it to you.
> 
> > and are also looking foward to meet Jesus when he decends from the sky,
> > "flying on a chair".
> 
> Who is it that believes that Jesus (peace be upon him) will be "flying on a
> chair" ?!!  The sunnah states that he will descend on the shoulders of two
> angels.
> 
> > But if we closley examine the Holy books of Allah (swt)
> 
> Please remember : the Bible as it exists today is not a reliable scripture.
> 
> >         ~The Holy Quran
> >
> >         "The Messiah son of Mary is only a Messenger: Surley messengers
> > like him have passed away before him. And his mother was a truthful woman.
> > They both used to eat food. See how We explain the Signs of Allah for
> > their good, and see how they are turned away." (5:75)
> 
> This verse contains no mention of death of the Messiah.
> 
> >        "And Muhammad is only a Messenger. Verily, all Messengers have
> >         passed away before him. If then he die or be slain, will you turn
> > your back
> >         on your heels?" (Al-Qur'an 3:144)
> 
> 'Passed away' does not necesarily equate to 'died.'
> 
> >         "And those on whom they call beside Allah create not anything but
> > they are themselves created. They are dead, not living; and they know not
> > when they will be raised. (Al Qur'an 16:20-21)
> 
> > -- "Jesus is among those to whom they call beside Allah (Al-Qur'an 5:73).
> 
> Yes, and so are the angels, as also stated in the Qur'an (let me know if you
> can't find the verse -  I can point you to it, inshaAllah).  Since there is
> unanimity that the angels are not dead, they are excepted from this verse,
> so why not except Jesus also, especially in the light of the other
> compelling evidence.
> 
> >         Hadhrat Isa (as) said: "And peace is on me on the day I was born,
> > and on
> >         the day that I DIE, and on the day I shall be raised up to life
> > (again) ."
> >         (19:33)
> 
> This indicates that he would die at some point after his birth, and this is
> not a matter of dispute.  But the verse does not at all indicate that he
> already died never to return.
> 
> >         Hadhrat Isa (as) said: "I said nothing to them except that which
> > you didst
> >         command me -- 'Worship Allah, my Lord, and your Lord' and I was a
> >         witness over them as longs as I remained among them, but since
> > Thou
> >         didst cause me to die Thou hast been the Watcher over them, and
> > Thou
> >         are Witness over all things." (Al Qur'an 5:118)
> 
> The word used here is "tawaffaytanee" which does not necessarily mean death,
> as discussed before.  Besides, these words will be said on the day of
> Judgement, and Jesus (peace be upon him) will certainly have died before
> then.
> 
> >         Hadith
> >         On the day of Qiyamat (resurrection), some people of my Umaah
> > would be taken towards Hell. Then I shall say, O my Lord! these are my
> > companions'. Then it would be said! 'thou don't know what they innovated
> > after thee".
> >         Then I say as the righteous servent said: 'I was a witness among
> > them, but
> >         since thou didst cause me to die, Thou hast been the watcher over
> > them.'"
> >         (Bukhari Kitabul Tafseer, Vol. 3 p. 79; Vol 2. p. 159)
> 
> Perhaps you are suggesting that since Muhammad (peace and blessings upon him
> and his Household) died a natural death, the same should be true of Jesus
> (peace be upon him)?  I'm afraid your logic is faulty because :- Jesus will
> also die a natural death.  In fact, it is very possible that when he utters
> these words it is with regard to those who believed in him correctly only
> after his second coming - when the Major Signs of the Day of Judgement had
> already started.
> - Using the same words (iqtibaas) does not necessarily imply the same
> meaning.  Indeed, how often will writers take words from a well-known
> literary piece or poem, and quote it in a different context, merely wishing
> to draw on the fame of the words?
> - You are overlooking that Muhammad (peace and blessings upon him) was also
> lifted to Heaven, on the night o Mi`raj, and then returned, and died a
> natural death some time after returning.
> 
> >         "If Moses and Jesus had been alive, they would have had to believe
> > in me
> >         and follow me." (Zurqani, Vol. VI, p. 54; Tibrani Kabeer;
> > Alyawaqeet Wal
> >         Jawahir Vol. 2 p.23)
> 
> Firstly : this hadith is not authentic.  Please provide the isnad, so we can
> examine it and point out the flaws.Secondly : even if it were authentic,
> there is no proof in it for the death of Jesus having occurred.  This is
> because it is established through authentic ahadith that "the prophets are
> alive in their graves, performing salah."  So, actually Moses is also alive,
> except that he already underwent death.  Jesus is also alive in the Heavens,
> with some type of life which is best known to Allah, except that he has not
> died at all yet.
> 
> >         The Holy Prophet (saw) said to his daughter Fatima: "Once in every
> > year,
> >         Gabriel recited the Qur'an to me. This year he recited twice.He
> > also told
> >         me that every succeding prophet has lived to half the age of his
> > proceeder.
> >         He told me that Jesus, son of Mary, lived to 120 years.Therefore,
> > I think, I
> >         may live to about 60 years." (Mawahib-ud-Duniya by Qastalani,
> > Vol.1 p.42,
> >         and Kanzul-Ummal Vol.6 p. 160)
> 
> First of all, Qastallani's book is named "al-Mawahib
> al-Laduniyyah."Secondly, we must examine the isnad of the hadith before we
> can accept it.
> Thirdly : even if one claimed Jesus had died, there is nothing to prevent
> him being given life again, and then sent back.
> 
> >         Imam Malik reported: "Isa is has died." (Biharul-Anwar Vol. 1 p.
> > 286)
> 
> Again, please provide the isnad of this report, and the full title of the
> book.  Is it "BiHaar al-Anwaar" the Shi`ite hadith collection?  Or some
> other book?  Also, we need to examine at the same time other sayings and
> reports from Imam Malik.
> 
> >           "We granted not abiding life to any human being before thee.If
> > then
> >            thou shouldst die, shall they have abiding life?" (Al Qur'an
> > 21:35)
> 
> "khuld" (which the translator above has translated with "abiding life") has
> the meaning, in the Arabic language, of "remaining in a place forever, never
> leaving it."  And it is indeed true that no Prophet has been allowed to
> remain living in this world forever.  Most died natural deaths, while a
> couple were raised out to heaven alive.
> 
> May Allah grant all the courage to be honest, and to re-examine
their ideas.
> 
> And Allah is the granter of success.
> 
> Suheil

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