[qadianism] Re: I need answer.
By Suheil Laher @alum.mit.edu
5:53am
Thu
18
Feb

Farhan Qureshi wrote:

> As-salaamu `alaykum,

wa`alaykum

> Sulier wrote:

Please note that my name is "Suheil," not "Sulier."  I assume this must have
been a typo, and it is not a big deal of course.  I am just pointing it out
in case you misread my name.

> >What I am presenting is not my own ideas,
>
> If it is not your work akhi, then give references to where you recieve
> such ideas and view points.

Farhan, for the umpteenth time I request you : please tell me specifically
what you need references for!  I will be happy to point you to whatever
references I can, inshaAllah.

> Wassalaam,
> Farhan
>

Was-salam `ala man ittaba` al-hudaSuheil

> ---Suheil Laher < slahe-@alum.mit.edu > wrote:
> >
> > Farhan Qureshi wrote:
> >
> > > Assalaamu Alaikum,
> >
> > wa`alaykum
> >
> > > First of all, let me ask you are you a Qur'an or Hadith interpreter?
> >
> > What I am or am not is irrelevant.   but rather information drawn
> from clear texts of the Qur'an and
> > Sunnah.  For some issues where there is some specialized training in
> > exegesis called for, the material I present is drawn from
> well-renowned and
> > qualified sources.  If you need a reference for any particular
> point(s),
> > please specify which, and I will furnish you with the references,
> Allah
> > willing.
> >
> > > If not give me an explanation of scholors, or otherwise. Also tell me
> > > one place in the Qur'an or Hadith where is states that Isa ibn Maryam
> > > (as) is still living in the heavens........
> >
> > The Sunnah is a binding authority.  Islam is not restricted to the Qur'an.
> > As a simple illustration : the Qur'an does not contain description of the
> > details of the five prayers; it does not even state clearly that the number
> > of prayers are five.
> >
> > Please see
> > http://webpages.marshall.edu/~laher1/sunnah.html
> > for some further discussion on authority of the sunnah.  If you still have
> > any questions, please let me know.
> >
> >
> > > Remember the Quranic
> > > verse: it is only those who understand the Qur'an who ar especially
> > > purified by Him. (Al Qur'an)
> >
> > And what is the criterion for knowing who is purified?  You seem to be
> > claiming that you (or your leaders) are.  Other groups will probably claim
> > the same.  There is no tangible proof  of who is correct.  Hence, such a
> > claim cannot be used for argument.  Rather, one should rely on the Qur'an
> > and Sunnah, and on honest, rational arguments within the guidelines of these
> > two.  In this way, if it should turn out that one was honestly mistaken, he
> > will realize that and be able to correct himself and accept the truth, on
> > its own merits.
> > ("Indeed, those who strive in Our cause, We shall guide them to our ways.")
> > [Qur'an]
> >
> > > Wasslaam,
> > > Farhan
> >
> > Was-salam `ala man ittaba` al-hudaa
> >
> > > ---Suheil Laher < slahe-@alum.mit.edu > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Farhan Qureshi wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Jesus did die, And The Quran and Bible are the evidence to it.
> > > >
> > > > The Bible is not a source of proof, otherwise, it would also be an
> > > > 'evidence' for the 'trinity', as well as an evidence of various other
> > > > falsehoods.
> > > >
> > > > > "Allah reassured Jesus: O Jesus indeed I will cause thee to die,
> > > > > ....." (Al Quran 3:55)
> > > >
> > > > I already discussed this verse in my previous email, and showed how
> > > it is
> > > > far from conclusive in saying that Jesus (peace be upon him) died. Please
> > > > refer back to that email; if you have lost it I can re-send it to you.
> > > >
> > > > > and are also looking foward to meet Jesus when he decends from the sky,
> > > > > "flying on a chair".
> > > >
> > > > Who is it that believes that Jesus (peace be upon him) will be
> > > "flying on a
> > > > chair" ?!!  The sunnah states that he will descend on the shoulders of two
> > > > angels.
> > > >
> > > > > But if we closley examine the Holy books of Allah (swt)
> > > >
> > > > Please remember : the Bible as it exists today is not a reliable
> > > scripture.
> > > >
> > > > >         ~The Holy Quran
> > > > >
> > > > > "The Messiah son of Mary is only a Messenger: Surley messengers
> > > > > like him have passed away before him. And his mother was a
> > > truthful woman.
> > > > > They both used to eat food. See how We explain the Signs of Allah
> > > for
> > > > > their good, and see how they are turned away." (5:75)
> > > >
> > > > This verse contains no mention of death of the Messiah.
> > > >
> > > > >        "And Muhammad is only a Messenger. Verily, all Messengers
> > > have
> > > > >         passed away before him. If then he die or be slain, will
> > > you turn
> > > > > your back
> > > > >         on your heels?" (Al-Qur'an 3:144)
> > > >
> > > > 'Passed away' does not necesarily equate to 'died.'
> > > >
> > > > >         "And those on whom they call beside Allah create not
> > > anything but
> > > > > they are themselves created. They are dead, not living; and they
> > > know not
> > > > > when they will be raised. (Al Qur'an 16:20-21)
> > > >
> > > > > -- "Jesus is among those to whom they call beside Allah (Al-Qur'an
> > > 5:73).
> > > >
> > > > Yes, and so are the angels, as also stated in the Qur'an (let me
> > > know if you
> > > > can't find the verse -  I can point you to it, inshaAllah).  Since
> > > there is
> > > > unanimity that the angels are not dead, they are excepted from this
> > > verse,
> > > > so why not except Jesus also, especially in the light of the other
> > > > compelling evidence.
> > > >
> > > > >         Hadhrat Isa (as) said: "And peace is on me on the day I
> > > was born,
> > > > > and on
> > > > >         the day that I DIE, and on the day I shall be raised up to
> > > life
> > > > > (again) ."
> > > > >         (19:33)
> > > >
> > > > This indicates that he would die at some point after his birth, and
> > > this is
> > > > not a matter of dispute.  But the verse does not at all indicate
> > > that he
> > > > already died never to return.
> > > >
> > > > >         Hadhrat Isa (as) said: "I said nothing to them except that
> > > which
> > > > > you didst
> > > > >         command me -- 'Worship Allah, my Lord, and your Lord' and
> > > I was a
> > > > >         witness over them as longs as I remained among them, but
> > > since
> > > > > Thou
> > > > >         didst cause me to die Thou hast been the Watcher over
> > > them, and
> > > > > Thou
> > > > >         are Witness over all things." (Al Qur'an 5:118)
> > > >
> > > > The word used here is "tawaffaytanee" which does not necessarily
> > > mean death,
> > > > as discussed before.  Besides, these words will be said on the day of
> > > > Judgement, and Jesus (peace be upon him) will certainly have died
> > > before
> > > > then.
> > > >
> > > > >         Hadith
> > > > >         On the day of Qiyamat (resurrection), some people of my
> > > Umaah
> > > > > would be taken towards Hell. Then I shall say, O my Lord! these
> > > are my
> > > > > companions'. Then it would be said! 'thou don't know what they
> > > innovated
> > > > > after thee".
> > > > >         Then I say as the righteous servent said: 'I was a witness
> > > among
> > > > > them, but
> > > > >         since thou didst cause me to die, Thou hast been the
> > > watcher over
> > > > > them.'"
> > > > >         (Bukhari Kitabul Tafseer, Vol. 3 p. 79; Vol 2. p. 159)
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps you are suggesting that since Muhammad (peace and blessings
> > > upon him
> > > > and his Household) died a natural death, the same should be true of
> > > Jesus
> > > > (peace be upon him)?  I'm afraid your logic is faulty because :-
> > > Jesus will
> > > > also die a natural death.  In fact, it is very possible that when he
> > > utters
> > > > these words it is with regard to those who believed in him correctly
> > > only
> > > > after his second coming - when the Major Signs of the Day of
> > > Judgement had
> > > > already started.
> > > > - Using the same words (iqtibaas) does not necessarily imply the same
> > > > meaning.  Indeed, how often will writers take words from a well-known
> > > > literary piece or poem, and quote it in a different context, merely
> > > wishing
> > > > to draw on the fame of the words?
> > > > - You are overlooking that Muhammad (peace and blessings upon him)
> > > was also
> > > > lifted to Heaven, on the night o Mi`raj, and then returned, and died a
> > > > natural death some time after returning.
> > > >
> > > > >         "If Moses and Jesus had been alive, they would have
> had to
> >
> === message truncated ===
>


------------------------------------------------------------------------
eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/qadianism